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	<title>Comments on: Statewide smoking ban proposed</title>
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	<link>http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/</link>
	<description>News from the Carytown and Museum District areas</description>
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		<title>By: Bradley</title>
		<link>http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/comment-page-1/#comment-86755</link>
		<dc:creator>Bradley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 20:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/#comment-86755</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t it make as much sense to ban transfat in food products? After all, it&#039;s dangerously unhealthy, having lead to 60% of American adults being overweight, and 30.2% being deemed clinically obese. 

Transfat causes a slew of medical conditions many of which are shared with those associated with smoking (the notable exception being lung and oral cancer), and contributes a great deal more to the number one killer in America - heart disease. 

Employees who work in fast food restaurants are repeated exposed to foods high in fat, often leaving at the end of the day smelling of grease and with a high level of fat on their skin and clothing gathered from the air. And they have little options other than to eat at said restaurants. 

Beyond that, social studies have shown that people who are socially associated with overweight people tend to become overweight themselves. Certain nutritionists have begun to call this &quot;secondhand fat.&quot;

So, since we&#039;re mandating one way that businesses are allowed to operate, why not ban transfats as well? 

It sounds like a slippery slope, but the fact is fatty foods are a bigger danger to America than smoking. 

Bars and restaurants who wish to adopt non-smoking policies should be welcomed, even encouraged to do so with the likes of tax incentives. If the non-smoking crowd is such a desired demographic, court them with advertising. As evidenced by this thread, there are non-smokers who prefer smoke free bars, just as there are smokers who prefer bars which they can smoke in. 

As another commenter pointed out, banning smoking has not statistically had an impact on the revenue which bars make. What it does have an impact on is:

Littering - most bars do not provide an ash tray outside of their establishment, which leads to a high amount of littered butts in the street.

Decrease in gross tax revenue - Maryland saw a significant decrease in the number of smokers after they passed their ban. This leads to falling tax revenue, as cigarettes are heavily taxed and that is money which states depend on to provide other services. Pennsylvania is currently considering legalizing video gambling to recoup the money they have lost in tax revenue after they went &quot;smoke free&quot;. 

Increase occurrences of &quot;tab jumping&quot; - with people going out to smoke, or pretending to go out to smoke in order to avoid paying a bar tab.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t it make as much sense to ban transfat in food products? After all, it&#8217;s dangerously unhealthy, having lead to 60% of American adults being overweight, and 30.2% being deemed clinically obese. </p>
<p>Transfat causes a slew of medical conditions many of which are shared with those associated with smoking (the notable exception being lung and oral cancer), and contributes a great deal more to the number one killer in America &#8211; heart disease. </p>
<p>Employees who work in fast food restaurants are repeated exposed to foods high in fat, often leaving at the end of the day smelling of grease and with a high level of fat on their skin and clothing gathered from the air. And they have little options other than to eat at said restaurants. </p>
<p>Beyond that, social studies have shown that people who are socially associated with overweight people tend to become overweight themselves. Certain nutritionists have begun to call this &#8220;secondhand fat.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, since we&#8217;re mandating one way that businesses are allowed to operate, why not ban transfats as well? </p>
<p>It sounds like a slippery slope, but the fact is fatty foods are a bigger danger to America than smoking. </p>
<p>Bars and restaurants who wish to adopt non-smoking policies should be welcomed, even encouraged to do so with the likes of tax incentives. If the non-smoking crowd is such a desired demographic, court them with advertising. As evidenced by this thread, there are non-smokers who prefer smoke free bars, just as there are smokers who prefer bars which they can smoke in. </p>
<p>As another commenter pointed out, banning smoking has not statistically had an impact on the revenue which bars make. What it does have an impact on is:</p>
<p>Littering &#8211; most bars do not provide an ash tray outside of their establishment, which leads to a high amount of littered butts in the street.</p>
<p>Decrease in gross tax revenue &#8211; Maryland saw a significant decrease in the number of smokers after they passed their ban. This leads to falling tax revenue, as cigarettes are heavily taxed and that is money which states depend on to provide other services. Pennsylvania is currently considering legalizing video gambling to recoup the money they have lost in tax revenue after they went &#8220;smoke free&#8221;. </p>
<p>Increase occurrences of &#8220;tab jumping&#8221; &#8211; with people going out to smoke, or pretending to go out to smoke in order to avoid paying a bar tab.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/comment-page-1/#comment-10181</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 18:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/#comment-10181</guid>
		<description>It will be a sad day when an American can&#039;t go to a bar and enjoy a beer with a cigarette.  I like the non-smoking places and hell I&#039;m even up for a tax break for places that elect to go smoke free but don&#039;t regulate everyone.  There is something great about sitting down at a bar, smoking a cigarette, and discussing current events with the local bartender.  Even though I hardly ever smoke I don&#039;t want that right taken away from me, limit the places I&#039;m allowed to go, that is fine, but don&#039;t eliminate it entirely, its part of our culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It will be a sad day when an American can&#8217;t go to a bar and enjoy a beer with a cigarette.  I like the non-smoking places and hell I&#8217;m even up for a tax break for places that elect to go smoke free but don&#8217;t regulate everyone.  There is something great about sitting down at a bar, smoking a cigarette, and discussing current events with the local bartender.  Even though I hardly ever smoke I don&#8217;t want that right taken away from me, limit the places I&#8217;m allowed to go, that is fine, but don&#8217;t eliminate it entirely, its part of our culture.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/comment-page-1/#comment-10172</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Feb 2008 14:53:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/#comment-10172</guid>
		<description>The govt should focus on pollutants people are unaware of and cannot avoid.   You can avoid a bar or restaurant that allows smoking.   Just require them to post a sign outside that they allow smoking.   Workers have choices where to work too.  Bar and Restaurant owners are not required to allow smoking and if they feel their business would perform better by not permitting it than so be it.

This entire campaign against smoking is almost Orwellian.

Less to the point:

Since smoking bans have begun and tobacco taxes increased, the cost of govt funded health care is still growing at an alarming rate.    I thought we were supposed to be saving money?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The govt should focus on pollutants people are unaware of and cannot avoid.   You can avoid a bar or restaurant that allows smoking.   Just require them to post a sign outside that they allow smoking.   Workers have choices where to work too.  Bar and Restaurant owners are not required to allow smoking and if they feel their business would perform better by not permitting it than so be it.</p>
<p>This entire campaign against smoking is almost Orwellian.</p>
<p>Less to the point:</p>
<p>Since smoking bans have begun and tobacco taxes increased, the cost of govt funded health care is still growing at an alarming rate.    I thought we were supposed to be saving money?!</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Beylotte</title>
		<link>http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/comment-page-1/#comment-9673</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Beylotte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jan 2008 21:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/#comment-9673</guid>
		<description>is there a list of bars that are non smoking? i&#039;d like to spend my money there.
thanks. 

smoke on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>is there a list of bars that are non smoking? i&#8217;d like to spend my money there.<br />
thanks. </p>
<p>smoke on.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/comment-page-1/#comment-9083</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/#comment-9083</guid>
		<description>Why shouldn&#039;t the government regulate smoking in public places the same way it regulates factory pollution (very badly so far) and auto carbon emissions (even worse)?  What&#039;s the government for anyway, if not to help us collectively straighten this stuff out so we don&#039;t get sick and die from the air we breathe?  What are we living in, Victorian England?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why shouldn&#8217;t the government regulate smoking in public places the same way it regulates factory pollution (very badly so far) and auto carbon emissions (even worse)?  What&#8217;s the government for anyway, if not to help us collectively straighten this stuff out so we don&#8217;t get sick and die from the air we breathe?  What are we living in, Victorian England?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian B in Brooklyn</title>
		<link>http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/comment-page-1/#comment-8906</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian B in Brooklyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 06:47:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/#comment-8906</guid>
		<description>I live in NYC, where there&#039;s no smoking in bars or restaurants.  It is the best thing ever.  Going to bars in other cities is a painful experience.  I may move back to Richmond one day, and I hope for it to be a smoke-free Richmond.  I&#039;m skeptical that it will happen anytime soon, though.

Arguing that the rights of business owners and the rights of smokers are more important than the health of employees and patrons simply demonstrates a poor sense of priority and a frightening lack of compassion.

I&#039;m sick of the abused claim that the free market will eventually provide the ideal situation for everything.  That works with the price of toothpaste; it doesn&#039;t drive businesses to abandon harmful practices.  If smoke-free bars were a huge success, then they would be on every corner.  They are not profitable because too many people don&#039;t give a shit if they&#039;re forcing their habit on other people.  They don&#039;t want their local watering hole to operate morally, so it doesn&#039;t.  The question isn&#039;t whether the free market will create smoke-free bars.  The question is whether the government should step in and end the unhealthy and antiquated practice of indoor smoking since the free market never will any time soon.  And the answer is &quot;Yes&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in NYC, where there&#8217;s no smoking in bars or restaurants.  It is the best thing ever.  Going to bars in other cities is a painful experience.  I may move back to Richmond one day, and I hope for it to be a smoke-free Richmond.  I&#8217;m skeptical that it will happen anytime soon, though.</p>
<p>Arguing that the rights of business owners and the rights of smokers are more important than the health of employees and patrons simply demonstrates a poor sense of priority and a frightening lack of compassion.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sick of the abused claim that the free market will eventually provide the ideal situation for everything.  That works with the price of toothpaste; it doesn&#8217;t drive businesses to abandon harmful practices.  If smoke-free bars were a huge success, then they would be on every corner.  They are not profitable because too many people don&#8217;t give a shit if they&#8217;re forcing their habit on other people.  They don&#8217;t want their local watering hole to operate morally, so it doesn&#8217;t.  The question isn&#8217;t whether the free market will create smoke-free bars.  The question is whether the government should step in and end the unhealthy and antiquated practice of indoor smoking since the free market never will any time soon.  And the answer is &#8220;Yes&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/comment-page-1/#comment-8880</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 18:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/#comment-8880</guid>
		<description>This time last year, I would have said that a bar/restaurant smoking ban was a terrible thing. Having been to NYC many times in the past two months, I can REALLY appreciate the difference after a long night out. And, I&#039;m a social smoker. I find it is not at all inconvenient to step out the door.

That said, it&#039;s not the government&#039;s responsibility to make these changes. If a bar in town widely announced their non-smoking status along with other qualities, they would find wild success. This is a market-driven question. Would you as a bar owner, want the government to REQUIRE smoking in bars?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This time last year, I would have said that a bar/restaurant smoking ban was a terrible thing. Having been to NYC many times in the past two months, I can REALLY appreciate the difference after a long night out. And, I&#8217;m a social smoker. I find it is not at all inconvenient to step out the door.</p>
<p>That said, it&#8217;s not the government&#8217;s responsibility to make these changes. If a bar in town widely announced their non-smoking status along with other qualities, they would find wild success. This is a market-driven question. Would you as a bar owner, want the government to REQUIRE smoking in bars?</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/comment-page-1/#comment-8833</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/#comment-8833</guid>
		<description>Good grief!  Has anyone been to New York lately?  Are the restaurants and bars there empty because of the smoking ban? Do you think New Yorkers (New Yorkers!) are actually crossing the river and patronizing New Jersey establishments because they can smoke there? You&#039;ve got a perfect, real-world example of a smoking ban that has had NO effect on business, but oddly,  the keep-your-hands-off-that-death-inducing-
cigarette-pack crowd chooses to ignore it. 

I think everyone needs a reality check here.  My rights are infringed the moment someone (who smokes by choice!) exhales smoke adjacent to me.  Bottom-line, it&#039;s a health risk. I simply can&#039;t choose not to breath, whereas the smoker to my right can limit their stupidity to their own body by  hauling their lazy butts outside.

Anyone who&#039;s come home from a smoky bar with a sore throat and red eyes knows that smoke isn&#039;t exactly enhancing the quality of their life--and they know this in a real and immediate way.  As my dad said, &quot;We didn&#039;t &#039;know&#039; cigarettes were bad for you, by why did we nickname them as coffin nails?&quot;

If it looks like a duck, smokes like a duck, and dies very sloooowly and painfully of lung cancer like a duck, it&#039;s time to ban smoking in bars and restaurants.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good grief!  Has anyone been to New York lately?  Are the restaurants and bars there empty because of the smoking ban? Do you think New Yorkers (New Yorkers!) are actually crossing the river and patronizing New Jersey establishments because they can smoke there? You&#8217;ve got a perfect, real-world example of a smoking ban that has had NO effect on business, but oddly,  the keep-your-hands-off-that-death-inducing-<br />
cigarette-pack crowd chooses to ignore it. </p>
<p>I think everyone needs a reality check here.  My rights are infringed the moment someone (who smokes by choice!) exhales smoke adjacent to me.  Bottom-line, it&#8217;s a health risk. I simply can&#8217;t choose not to breath, whereas the smoker to my right can limit their stupidity to their own body by  hauling their lazy butts outside.</p>
<p>Anyone who&#8217;s come home from a smoky bar with a sore throat and red eyes knows that smoke isn&#8217;t exactly enhancing the quality of their life&#8211;and they know this in a real and immediate way.  As my dad said, &#8220;We didn&#8217;t &#8216;know&#8217; cigarettes were bad for you, by why did we nickname them as coffin nails?&#8221;</p>
<p>If it looks like a duck, smokes like a duck, and dies very sloooowly and painfully of lung cancer like a duck, it&#8217;s time to ban smoking in bars and restaurants.</p>
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		<title>By: it&#8217;s a cheerocracy &#171; parasol party</title>
		<link>http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/comment-page-1/#comment-8809</link>
		<dc:creator>it&#8217;s a cheerocracy &#171; parasol party</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 17:36:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/#comment-8809</guid>
		<description>[...] statewide smoking ban has been proposed (again); I hope it has better luck this time.  I have nothing against smoking, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] statewide smoking ban has been proposed (again); I hope it has better luck this time.  I have nothing against smoking, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bit o' nut</title>
		<link>http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/comment-page-1/#comment-8752</link>
		<dc:creator>bit o' nut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 15:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wotbn.net/statewide-smoking-ban-proposed/#comment-8752</guid>
		<description>Legal or not, anyone who smokes where 
people are eating and drinking is a scumbag.

80% of taste is smell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Legal or not, anyone who smokes where<br />
people are eating and drinking is a scumbag.</p>
<p>80% of taste is smell</p>
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