Carytown & Museum District News Events in Richmond Virginia, West of the Boulevard

August 9, 2007

25 Comments.

1. A Farmer’s Market in Cary Court is an excellent idea. The city would be hesitant to people from the 17th St. Market, but lets be honest folks. NO ONE is down in the bottom on Saturdays, everyone is in Carytown. The farmers could sell more produce.

   Plus, the downtown market can’t even fill up a block’s worth of stalls — which blows my mind.

   The “Carytown folks” should check out the Byrd St. Market for ideas on how to run an excellent farmer’s market.

   Ross @ August 9th, 2007 at 8:38 am

2. I go down to the 17th street farmer’s market every Saturday to stroll and pick up my farm share from the fabulous CSA sponsored by SPROUT/Victory Farms. I really enjoy my weekly visits, but the CSA is what brings me down there. I do wish there was more going on and hope 17th street will grow and thrive. But there’s always room for more and I love the idea of a Carytown farmer’s market.

   I’m also a fan of closed off streets, and extending stores and restaurants onto sidewalks, a-la the mall in Charlottesville. But I do wonder about parking and the City of Richmond’s willingness to support those things. Historically they’ve only seemed to put up barriers.

   On the shoulda, woulda, coulda note, we HAD green in Carytown until they took down all of those beautiful trees. And we’d probably still have some of the small businesses if there was some kind of a cap on rents, but alas they have skyrocketed.

   Okay, making room on the soapbox now for others. Looking forward to more comments!

   Jennifer @ August 9th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

3. Greetings:

   Each Carytown store has its own character, and its own story, and threfore a distinctive reason for existing — and closing. Since many are, thankfully, owner operated they keep sometimes eccentric hours. But the reason people go to work for themselves is that they don’t want to be for The Man-agement.

   Some shopkeepers, however, just want to open retail venues because they think it’s “fun” and don’t understand that, well, it’s a business and you have to be there and keep regular hours.

   Closing Cary Street on Saturday, for a few blocks– at least as an experiment–I think is a good idea. Remember, Colonial Ave is two way on the south end.

   I, too, lament the destruction of our Bartlett pear trees–but they were ripped out because a storekeeper complained that the mushed fruit got tracked into the store (!). And I don’t think anybody voted on this procedure, either. If somebody knows different, I’d like to know.

   Yeah, you’re not getting the 7-11 for a park — my question is, why does Southland Corporation need three of the freaking things within four blocks? Crazy. They must be making money, though.

   I’d like to see weekend children’s matinees at the Byrd, using old serials, perhaps music, and other entertainment.

   Boulevard and Cary — that’s a very long-standing problem made worse by a landowner who has this nutty vendetta against the city and refuses to repair his buildings.

   I know, though, that an architect is seeking to replace that awful boarded up structure near the corner with a four-unit structure, if the neighborhood association can be persuaded to endorse the plan, to get the city to accept the idea. It isn’t the potential buyer’s idea, but the owner’s precondition to any sale.

   I’m not hopeful about any further make overs in that corner until the land owner — well. Doesn’t own the land anymore.

   My question is: Richmond Window sells windows, but its second floor is boarded up and painted over, I guess to cut down on maintenance costs.

   The apartment next door to it is crummy in appearance, and I don’t know what will ever become of it.

   More later.

   Harry @ August 9th, 2007 at 4:41 pm

4. Greetings, and part two and I apologize for the rambling ahead of time.

   Far as the suggestion of some kind of farmer’s market, I don’t think its an idea for Carytown. And here’s my line of reasoning:

   1) 17th Street Market has operated in Shockoe, in one form or another, since 1792. The best thing Richmond could do for the market is house it in a building, as it was from at least 1854 to 1961. Allowing the first Market structure to be razed in 1911 was unfortunate; getting rid of the second one was just stupid– a victim of “automobile access. ” The place resembles now how it may have looked in 1790s, “an open shed supported by wooden posts,” as historian Samuel Mordecai described the situation.

   If the city would divest itself of the market and encourage a corporate underwriter, giving the market the proper financial legs it needs, then you’d see some real steps forward made there. As part of the city administration, it just isn’t the best arrangement for anybody.

   As it is, when I am down in that end during a weekend, the time is pleasant and people seem to be enjoying themselves. I guess what I’m saying is: let’s support what’s already there.

   2) There are three grocery stores in Carytown, including Ellwood Thompson’s. I just don’t see a farmer’s market as a natural for the mix.

   3) If you–on the other hand–made the Carycourt Shopping Center parking lot a funky flea market, or almost a bazaar — like old, vital ones I’ve seen in Paris and Berlin — especially if you close the street on Saturdays –then maybe. Something like that would need time to nurture, otherwise its just a trendy thing that fades.

   Then, too, such a thing would compete with stores, unless they participate with a satellite outdoor booth of their own. Such activity would give Can Can customers something to see, though, that’s for certain.

   To the point, though, yes, some “thing” might be good as a Carytown. But I don’t know what it might be, to be honest.

   With all the in the pipeline projects going on nearby Carytown, it will need something to remain competitive–not another bar, nor a totschke shoppe.

   One suggestion I’ve heard is…a boutique hotel, that would be good for the French Film Festival crowd. This is an ambitious dream — I’m thinking of that unfortunate home in West of Boulevard South of Cary (WoBSoC) where a number of folks who wander out because they aren’t supervised and turn into panhandlers until time to go home.

   The building is a Colonial Revival structure, a former hospital for the…memory fails me. There’s a plaque on it, either for the deaf or blind — back in the 1930s. Huh. I walk by it all the time…Anyway, if somehow that building could be relieved from the current owner, and a massive rehabilitation project made on it (using historic tax credits), and providing for a visionary developer, you’d have a jewel for the community.

   Some might cry, “Elitist!” — but you’d want, too, a good bar and perhaps a performance venue of some kind. It does have attached parking. For the rest of the year, the place could be marketed toward foreign visitors, that is, New Yorkers and such.

   WoBSoc tried to get the owner of that sad place to sell about five years ago; long story short, he wouldn’t.

   Another thing that might imnprove the street is a kind of “Clean Sweep” crew, supported by the merchants association and whatever grants might be available, to just keep the place tidy and prevent trash cans from overflowing, etc.

   Finally, bear in mind that within a few years (and who knows how long-everyone’s waiting to see how far south the markets go), that the bus depot on West Cary and Robinson–which is the old streetcar headquarters and those brick car barns are more than a century old–will get moved to Southside.

   The complex is slated to get overhauled through adaptive resue into a commercial hub with a number of retail venues, which would link up that end with Carytown, and the Cary Street Cafe in the middle of the whole thing.

   Market pressure may yet straighten up that Cary-Colonial-Boulevard quadrant, but, it’s going to take a world of it.

   And think of this: those little Monopoly cottages up there near Kroger–some of which have been rehabbed in positive and imaginative ways–many of them are rental property. It’s a few blocks, between the RMA and Cary, say from, like, Belmont or Beaumont west.

   Consider a a somewhat unappealing scenario (I have nightmares about this)–and Richmond would need to be much more viable market to a big time outsider–if some development consortium bought all those little pink/grey/brick houses, ripped them down, and put up, I dunno what. Neither Carytown nor WoBSoc are official historic districts.

   With D.C.’s Doug Jemal snatching up chunks of downtown real estate, such a maneuver might not be so far fetched. for another company, from somewhere else. But I hope it won’t come to pass anytime soon, if ever.

   All I know is, about, what?, 200,000 people show up for Watermelon Festival — about the population of Richmond proper. This means that tourists from the vast cul-de-sac archipelago are visiting our fair village. So — they will come, given a reason, with or without Thai restaurants.

   Much luck with the on-line charrette, and I hope others participate.

   Harry @ August 10th, 2007 at 12:19 am

5. I like the idea of closing it off to cars, but the parking infrastructure isn’t there to support it. Are you familiar w/ the part of Charlottesville that is pedestrian-only, and with movies theaters, bookstores, restaurants, and space for performances?

   john m @ August 10th, 2007 at 6:17 am

6. Parking:
   I mean 200,000 (apparently) people are coming to Carytown this Sunday, and they are all finding a place to park. Sure some of them park all the way out to Robinson but we are talking a much much smaller scale thing (at first). I mean lets try closing the street on a once a month basis and if it is awesome, we can do it weekly. Although it would be a totally Richmond thing to build a giant parking deck *first* …

   Crazy house:
   Also, re: the crazy house on Parkwood. I live behind the place and, to be honest, have had way worse neighbors than the people living there. Most of them are incredibly nice. I also think some of them are allowed to wander around it isn’t like they escape. But you are right: the area would benefit from something else being there. A Carytown hotel is kind of a neat idea actually, but I’m not sure there would be people to stay in it?

   If only there were light rail to connect Carytown to the bottom …

   Charlottesville:
   Unfortunately I’m not familiar with what you are talking about. Is it this? Because that looks pretty awesome.

   Ross @ August 10th, 2007 at 8:20 am

7. ross — that’s it! These photos capture it well.

   john m @ August 10th, 2007 at 10:48 am

8. Ross:

   Oh, yes, light rail to connect us to the Bottom, and Scott’s Addition. What a change that would make to our commerce and traffic patterns.

   Yes, a trial closing, one month, would be a good idea, provided it is advertised well in advance, like on this wonderful site.

   The Parkwood place is more of an annoyance to me on a humanitarian basis. The day-to-day maintenance of the place isn’t handled by medical professionals. And those folks are basically getting soaked of their social security checks. You know how hot it’s been; that place is festooned by window unit air conditioners and fans.

   The Parkwood “home” is just a miserable place for anybody to try to live. I’ve known a gentleman who had to treat clients and inspect the place and his term for it was, “Hell hole.”

   Now, some would say: Well, Harry, what’s your solution? Those people have to live somewhere, and, if it does get converted, our property values will go up, as will your taxes. And the residents there will either be foced into the street to be homeless, or worse. All very true.

   So that’s just sad –but symptomatic of a greater broken adult and mental health care system. I don’t know that we’ll solve that complicated issue in this forum. Wish we could.

   As for a hotel and who would stay there — Everything depends on the business plan and marketing. An upscale boutique hotel, which would pull out all the tricks and tri-color bunting for French Film Festival, would suit a certain clientele, but also provide another entertainment venue.

   On the other side of the line, one of those Japanese style “pod” sleep motels would be good around 2 a.m. when crowds come out of the bars and get in their cars to drive home. Criminy! I’m thankful I live walking distance from almost every place I want to go.

   Why nobody’s thought of something like that as a solution for Shockoe, I dunno. Would’ve saved some people big-time fines and their driver’s licenses, and perhaps a few lives.

   This is also where a flexible and accessible transit system would play its role: preventing the operation of heavy machinery by pixillated people.

   Harry @ August 10th, 2007 at 2:43 pm

9. About parking:

   In addition, there are the two free decks that the Carytown merchants of yore pushed to have built — imagine if they didn’t exist.

   People will come by the thousands, and some of them will not wear their shirts and have unsightly matted body hair. Yuck.

   But, hirsute or not, they park wherever they can, and they walk. Hey, we’re not moving our car this weekend.

   Harry @ August 10th, 2007 at 2:47 pm

10. i’m not sure closing the street is a good idea, but sure, try it out and see what happens. why not?

    parking is the biggest reason and citing the watermelon festival as a reason it will be ok isn’t exactly valid. sure, people will walk a long way for a major event, but not to walk around and maybe have some corn stand that wouldn’t be there normally. i imagine this site is loaded with people who can walk to carytown, but keep in mind that the majority of ct’s supporters are drivers (like it or not). if you make it annoying for drivers, they will drive somewhere else. but, try it and see.

    for me, the most annoying thing about carytown is how dead it is even at like 6:00pm. especially on weeknights. most of the stores close at like 5 or maybe 6. maybe that’s the nature of mom-and-pop shops. guess i’d rather have those than a 24-7 wal-mart.

    i’d like to see some sort of outdoor venue for music maybe at cary court. something small. where at like 6ish a band or performer or somebody could do something entertaining to keep people around. all you’d really need is a stage and power. it could be set up so that at times the lot would be emptied and people could flood that area if somebody particularly awesome was going to perform.

    Wolf @ August 10th, 2007 at 4:11 pm

11. Besides the fact that those scraggly trees are an abomination, I have seen a drastic decline in the level of effort property owners/shop tenants have taken in the streetscape of Carytown, particularly in the last 5 years. (Though one could ask who could take pride in a street lined with broomsticks.)

    There are weeds and trash ALWAYS along Carytown like you do not see in the developed corridor along Main near VCU…why?…owners/shop tenants there cooperate to keep it ALL picked up and the (&*&%$#) weeds pulled and tree wells attended to so it does not look broken down and sad like. Streetscape and property maintenance is a slippery slope, one area starts to look like no one cares and others around take it as permission to do the same.

    I think CMA should spearhead regular street maintenance all along Carytown, regardless of the merchant’s membership in the CMA. All will benefit.

    Along those lines, some would argue that the city should pick up the tree well maintenance. As a property owner in the city I think this is crap. I am responsible from my property from the middle of the street the middle of the alley and the merchants/business property owners should be held to the same.

    Next, for the soap box?!?

    Fiona @ August 10th, 2007 at 4:17 pm

12. About the “home”:

    When shopping for a home in this neighborhood (WoBSoC), I was told by a real estate agent that “rumor has it, the doctor is losing his medical license and they’re turning that home into condos.” Looking back, it appeared to be nothing more than a rumor–probably started by the agent herself to up the housing price. At the time, I did some research on the previous owner of the establishment located at 3003 Parkwood Ave., 23221, known as Old Dominion Adult Home. The listed owner was Saifullah K. Niazi. Based on some internet searches, the rumor was based upon some truth: http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/timesdispatch/results.html?st=basic&QryTxt=NIAZI+SAIFULLAH
    Apparently, he got his medical license suspended though, not revoked. The name of his business is/was (ironically) Best Care, LLC.

    Daniel @ August 10th, 2007 at 5:03 pm

13. Lots of great ideas here. A few months ago for some reason I began to imagine an effort to turn the vast wasteland between Floyd and Ellwood and Nansemond and Thompson (where the Floyd Avenue post office and Verizon or whoever owns that vast brick building lie) into a combo parking, retail commercial space; and close Cary Street to traffic — all of the time.

    Cary Street becomes a pedestrian mall.

    More green space.

    Open zoning for construction of new retail and second-floor residential on the side streets between Cary and Ellwood.

    A tethered hot air balloon on the roof of the 7-11.

    A boutique hotel would be very cool — especially one anchored by retail, restaurants and museums. A trifecta for the zippy tourist.

    A weekend market would work in the above setting, especially if the emphasis was on non-perishables, crafts and the like.

    Maybe we could just lay sod down Cary Street one night…

    John @ August 10th, 2007 at 7:34 pm

14. I thought the trees were pulled down when they buried the power lines? I remember coming home from college for a break and it was all gone - you could see the skyline and everything.

    Also - bazaar….flea market….empty space…UKROP’S PARKING LOT ON SUNDAYS. That thing is a giant waste of real estate on Sunday. Get the Ukrops to put their money where their mouth is and let out the parking lot to a local flea market. I’d sure stop by after I do my Kroger shopping.

    Susan @ August 11th, 2007 at 9:12 am

15. I love John’s idea of Cary St. becoming a pedestrian mall! I mean seriously, who wants to drive down Cary anyway?

    Someone should count the number of parking spots lost if you close Cary from Auburn to Colonial. I bet Cary Court is about 80. I’m not sure how much street parking you’d lose. I bet the number isn’t that high. The surrounding areas could accommodate the loss. Of course, I am not a traffic engineer.

    Also, I spoke to the SPROUT guy today about farmer’s markets elsewhere in the city. He said it would be really difficult for him to support another day/place. He did, however, say that Carytown would be a *MUCH* better location for the market even though he liked the feel of the downtown market.

    Anyone care to take a guess at how much he pays to rent a stall down there?

    Ross @ August 11th, 2007 at 1:07 pm

16. i don’t think having enough parking is as big of an issue as making sure you’ve got a good enough ‘thing’ for people to walk the extra distance. people are lazy. and fat. the guy that just wants to buy a part at agee’s will probably drive to broad, rather than search out a spot and walk 6 blocks to cary. so you have to make it awesome enough to counter this. not sure a farmers’ market is that, but maybe? in conclusion, if you do something good, it will probably work. i’m so helpful.

    i cheated, so i will not guess how much a spot at 17th street costs, but i will offer the hint that it was way *less* than i thought it would be…

    Wolf @ August 11th, 2007 at 8:21 pm

17. ya i also cheated and was shocked at the price. If its that cheap and from what i can tell there are not that many vendors, than there is a problem

    James @ August 12th, 2007 at 10:39 pm

18. Hey,
    I like the idea of a bazaar even better–instead of a farmer’s market in the Cary Court shopping center. Anyone ever been to the Eastern Market up in northern Virginia? Here’s a link : http://www.easternmarket.net/

    Something like that on a smaller scale would be cool, though this market has both the artisan booths (in the open air ) and the meats/cheeses/ farmers market in the enclosed area. For that matter, I agree that if we followed a model similar to this for the 17th street market by enclosing at least a part of it, it would be a great improvement.

    The boutique hotel would be a nice asset to the area and would provide a good clientele for many of the shops that increasingly seem to have taken a “boutique” turn….(not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

    Jennifer @ August 12th, 2007 at 10:49 pm

19. To rent a space at the farmer’s market it costs … 10$!?

    How can the place not be full for 10$?! I’m going to go down there and just hang out for 10$, honestly.

    Ross @ August 13th, 2007 at 9:07 am

20. also, i wish there was a roller coaster in carytown. or some other fun rides. just sort of inter-mingled throughout. also, maybe one of the coasters could go down to the bottom instead of some lame train. seriously, think about it.

    Wolf @ August 13th, 2007 at 6:18 pm

21. Wolf:

    Maybe not a roller coaster but, even better, a sky tram that would lift people over the roof tops. Now that would be a sight.

    Here’s an idea from Noo Yawk City:

    nymag.com/realestate/features/2016/17146/

    And from those wild and crazy folks in Portland, Ore., that have one and are extending it.

    http://www.portlandonline.com/transportation/index.cfm?c=ebajf

    Well, a boy can dream.

    Harry @ August 13th, 2007 at 6:36 pm

22. Fiona:

    I have to admit, you’re right the trash. Some mornings, because I can’t stand the sight of the stuff, I become a neat and clean guy and pick up crap and stuff down the trash cans. This gives me both a sense of accomplishment, and annoyance.

    But, I think this is part of the Carytown success situation. With more bars opening there, and traffic increasing, you may see a creeping Shockoe Bottom Effect. This could be counter acted, as you say, by more vigilant business people and even, well, ordinary citizens to take an interest. Leaving it all for the city to do is, well, shuffling off responsibilty and setting the community up for failure.

    This is our city, too, and everybody in WoBSoc ["Fashionably scruffy and scruffily fashionable"] and the Musee-yum Distric’ stands to benefit by taking a little interest.

    Thank you, and good night.

    Harry @ August 13th, 2007 at 6:42 pm

23. To clarify my previous comment…As a whole I love the shopping, and restaurants and places to dally with friends but I do not feel that as a whole the merchants are stepping up. It is true that they are getting burned with rent and may feel the city misrepresented the level of effort on their part for tree well maintenance but can we not all just get past that and pick up a screamin’ piece of litter on occasion?

    I am not saying that the merchants and property owners are the only ones that should pitch in to keep things spiffy, certainly the community does have a vested interest in doing their part, I am just saying that as a nearby resident who does pick up on regular morning walks through C-town and who does do their part and who knows others that do the same, it is frustrating to continually see crap everywhere. It is just plain sad to see that SOME of the merchants can’t even pitch in and pick up in front of THEIR OWN SHOP and pull a weed or two a week in front of THEIR OWN SHOP when it is their livelihood at stake. I am not talking huge project here, just 25 feet of store front a piece for heaven’s sake. I do not want to see trash and weeds because I live in and around the area, that some of these folks are not at least as motivated for their business concerns is mind boggling.

    I think CMA and other community groups should pester the city for a “Clean and Safe” crew at least once or twice a week, you know the litter gguys with the sidewalk sweepers. They used to do a great job downtown (I do not go there during the day much anymore so I do not know if that is still the case). I am assuming our illustrious Mayor has not axed them, though it has been hard to keep up. Certainly it would be an expense worth taking on.

    Fiona @ August 16th, 2007 at 11:20 am

24. Few things I would like to point out about Cary Town. I love the atmosphere of cary town, but my 2 biggest gripes have got to be the LACK OF PARKING!! And the fact that so many of the businesses on Cary have really weird odd messed up wtfwyt hours!!

    My wife and I will within a year start up our own small business. I would LOVE to add it to Cary town, but I know how I want my hours to be. 11am-11pm EVERY DAY! I’m not going to hire anybody to work my store.. it’ll be me 24/7 365 and my wife when she isn’t at her job (one of us has to keep the job)

    I want to bring a nice store with a great atmosphere to carytown that will also give students/teens a place to come to in the evening for events and such.

    Store in CaryTown really need to extend their hours! I for one don’t understand how half the stores in carytown maintain their stores… the prices for some of the retail locations are INSANE and I never see a soul in their stores… Carytown could use a good price cut and gutting of unwanteds.

    Daniel miller @ September 2nd, 2007 at 9:44 am

25. i think a lot of these are great suggestions! however, whoever why the use of a nonexsistent word-awesomer?

    sheri @ November 7th, 2007 at 9:42 am

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